User talk:TimeMaster

Change of location
I apologize for that bit of unpleasantness. Mind having the discussion here instead? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 05:26, November 5, 2017 (UTC)

Join me in chat if you are around. I'll be there for the next two hours waiting if you are available. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 17:39, November 5, 2017 (UTC)

Better yet, if you are on Discord, I'll just add you as a friend and we can talk there. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 18:43, November 5, 2017 (UTC)

I'm in the chat now. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:54, November 5, 2017 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay. Let's do this then. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 19:24, November 5, 2017 (UTC)

Welcome
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User talk:Vivaporius

Update
So have have things been going since the spat on Lovia wiki? Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 15:12, November 7, 2017 (UTC)

Hey TimeMaster,

Thanks for getting in touch. In general, once someone has not edited a wiki for over a year we are happy to demote them upon request by active admins. The decision was not based on any negative comments about you, just the fact you had not edited since October 2016.

To help us look into thus further, would you be able to give us more information or links about the hostility you mention?

Best regards,

George Marbulcanti (Kirkburn) Senior Technical Community Support Specialist FANDOM Community Support Team

I'm sending them a link to my Lovia talk page and something on Conworlds too. You'll have to send them discord screenshots yourself. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:10, November 7, 2017 (UTC)

Gotcha. I'll do it first thing when I make it back home. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 22:30, November 7, 2017 (UTC)

Evidence
Here are the images that you asked for. The first one came immediately after you were demoted by Wikia.

You can tell them this is from the Conworlds Discord owned by Centrist. Likewise, you can state that on top of this being the reason you opted to take some time off from the wiki, that you know that based on the evidence above, that the motivation for asking Wikia to demote you was based solely on personal animosity by Centrist. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 13:42, November 8, 2017 (UTC)

My Update
I got in touch with Wikia Staff regarding the dispute, and attached all of the images as well. I should be hearing from them soon. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 19:09, November 10, 2017 (UTC)

Okay. Here's an update:

Me: Sure: http://nation.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:TimeMaster#You_around is the comment on my talk page on Wikination. On Conworlds, http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/User:Centrist16?diff=256707&oldid=256413 http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/User:Centrist16?diff=256707&oldid=256413

And there are apparently several discord logs that User:Vivaporius has, but I don't have access to them myself.

The bureaucrat proposal was initiated here and the vote was also linked in there: http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:TimeMaster#Request_for_bureaucratship

In general, I think that Centrist16 was worried that Vivaporius was going to ask me to do something that would be in conflict with his otherwise full control over the wiki, so asked to have my rights removed to stop that, even though I was still checking in with the wiki occasionally, just not editing. You should talk to Vivaporius for more information on things that have occurred in Discord and in general his and other users' frustration (that they often feel afraid to express) with Centrist16 that until recently I could have taken action on. Is there any chance the removal of rights could be undone to counter that? I'm very frustrated that my long standing administrative position was removed by a request clearly motivated by a personal dislike of me. (Addition to my email from about 5 minutes ago) Oh, and he had deleted one of my pages, I think in revenge for modifying a template he'd created? I'm not sure. http://conworld.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=delete&user=Centrist16&page=Chile+%28Altverse%29&year=2016&month=7

George: Hey there,

Thanks for the links - but, to be honest, they don't really give me significant cause for concern. While there is some conflict there, several of those links are for events that happened over a year ago - that's a pretty long time. They're also generally pretty low-key events.

From our perspective: you had not been active on that wiki for more than a year, meaning the expectation that you'd return in future was very low. You also stated yourself on your profile page that you did not plan on coming back: http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/User:TimeMaster

This leads me to a question: what would be the purpose of you regaining your rights? What would you actually do with them?

Me: Attached are the screenshots Vivaporius took from their discord. I recall them not feeling low key at the time, I thought Centrist16 was not very impartial and seemed very power hungry at the time, which I think is confirmed by the demotion request. I felt very attacked at the time by both his and his friends' aggressive behavior towards me (some took place in chat on the wiki, though not in discord. I do agree what I was able to find was not very convincing, but perhaps the discord logs will help) so decided to become inactive.

I think I did plan to return at some point and wrote that while being upset about what had just happened over those two months with the events regarding his promotion, which I did carry out eventually in accordance with the vote. Vivaporius has advised me that he and other users are very unhappy with Centrist16's effective total control and similar aggressive behavior towards them and preferential behavior towards his friends (see http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/Constructed_Worlds_Wiki:Conworlds_Quality_Control - you should talk to Vivaporius though, as he's obviously been more active than me) and requested that I return to act as a counterbalance. So I think that would mainly involve simply the ability to be able to prevent Centrist16 from threatening to ban or desysop users to get his way, and possibly to try to curtail the "CQC" (the link above, made up of his friends) from harassing users, which are both things that happen by my understanding, though some of this activity is offwi ki on the discord. (attached your 10 screenshots)

Him: Hey there,

To be quite honest, seeing anyone use "cuck" in that manner immediately makes me somewhat predisposed against them. While I can't use Discord as direct evidence, that was helpful to see - thanks.

Would you mind asking Vivaporius to use Special:Contact to let us know their concerns? While I can ping them publicly, I think it would help avoid raising tensions if that suggestion comes from you (public or private).

As it currently stands, I don't think there is strong cause to break with our normal policy around demotion - but I'm not ruling it out. At the least, it sounds like it might make sense to set up a public discussion on the wiki about re-granting your rights and/or Centrist16's behaviour?

I haven't replied yet. What do you suggest? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:54, November 10, 2017 (UTC)

I suggest going ahead with the suggestion by Wikia Staff to turn it into a public discussion. They will attempt to counter your claims by pointing to behavior following the vote, and try to link the events on Nation wiki prior to the demotion as a counterargument. I will get Topaz on our side and ask him to assist us by vouching silence or acting in your defense. And I will publicly support you and use my veterancy as my leverage against Centrist, and our relationship together prior to Centrist's activity on the wiki. I will present other evidence regarding the information on Centrist promoting members of the CQC as admins unilaterally, rather than having a vote for it.

Likewise, you can appeal to Wikia's sense of fairness, and state that Conworlds is almost entirely controlled by the CQC, and that any discussion regarding giving you your rights back, or Centrist's behavior, would be one-sided at best, or completely disregarded at worst. I believe the latter course of action would be best. You can tell them that I am one of the oldest active members on the wiki, and that my vouching for you and neutrality over the course of events is good enough to justify restoration of your powers. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 01:18, November 11, 2017 (UTC)

Wikia Response
WIKIA

George Marbulcanti (Kirkburn), Nov 10, 10:17 PM UTC:

Hey Vivaporius,

''Thanks for getting in touch, we appreciate it. I would like to reconfirm that the only reason for the removal was our standard policy that bureaucrats who have been inactive for 12+ months can be demoted upon request by active admins/bureaucrats of the wiki - not because of any reports of negative activity. This makes us much happier with discussing restoration of the rights, or some other amicable solution.''

I'm particularly interested in your point that "the policies we have establish that the mandate he was given by the community in 2010 to serve as a bureaucrat was a permanent one" - is there a page or post you can point me to that helps establish that?

Additionally, have you had any personal issues with Centrist16 - or do the issues seem to mainly exist just between TM and Centrist16?

Best regards,

George Marbulcanti (Kirkburn)

Senior Technical Community Support Specialist

FANDOM Community Support Team

ME

Hello Wikia,

Thank you for your prompt response.

''We have no "written" rule on that subject, as it has traditionally (a term I use lightly) been accepted that once voted into the position by the members of the community, that commission is deemed permanent as a sign of respect earned to get to that station. Indeed, many of the admins and bureaucrats who have since become inactive were allowed to maintain their roles due to all of the work performed to make our community stronger and quality of the wiki itself better. That was one of the main reasons I intervened in the matter, aside from the aforementioned disputes within the community's leading bureaucrats. Even during the most heated arguments between administrators and bureaucrats (of which I myself had once been apart), it was generally understood that once voted into the position by the community, the vote was permanent. Individuals vested with responsibility were trusted to work their issues out, not demote one another.''

''As to your other question regarding Centrist16, no, I have no personal role in dispute. Given what I knew about the long-standing arguments between the two, as well as my own knowledge of both users individually, I knew that the removal of rights from TimeMaster had been prompted by Centrist16, and entirely for personal reasons. He and his friends had been watching TimeMaster's actions on the other wiki he moved to, and when I contacted him, I was publicly chastised for doing so by one of the CQC (Conworld Quality Control) members, and somewhat "interrogated" by Centrist16. I have a lot of respect for both individuals, and only wanted to perform my role as an admin to check in on a long time user and friend, and see how he had been after being verbally abused by the very individual he had promoted. I had been away for some months due to personal work, and wanted to check in on TimeMaster as I knew he left due to the hostility he faced from the new members of a community he had been apart of for six years. The fact that even after a year Centrist16 and his friends still harbored animosity toward TimeMaster was something of a shock to me due to my prior perception of Centrist16 being a mild-mannered individual.''

''My other concern is that many of the individuals who voted for Centrist16 to receive bureaucrat rights did so because they knew him personally, not by his contributions on the wiki. These same individuals were invited into the CQC, and at least four of the group's existing members (all of which voted for him) were promoted by Centrist16 right after he received his new rights. Thereafter, they began to insult TimeMaster and ultimately forced him off of the wiki. The CQC has since become an exclusive group which has dominated much of the discussion regarding TimeMaster on the wiki, and I fear that any attempt to amicably restore TimeMaster's privileges on Conworlds would be stymied by Centrist16 and his friends within the CQC. I will reiterate once again, that I hold both individuals in high esteem. However, Centrist16's behavior as of the past week has been unacceptable, and with his calling a fellow user a "cuck", among other hostile terms, and bragging of his actions to his friends rather brazenly, I felt the need to bring this to Wikia's attention for the sake of peace and stability.''

I apologize for the lack of brevity in this response, but this has been by far the most disappointing thing I've witnessed in the years I've been on Wikia.

Regards,

Vivaporius

Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 01:51, November 11, 2017 (UTC)

Ok, what now :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 02:32, November 20, 2017 (UTC)